Bethea's Byte
How Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short HjN73
Welcome to Bethea's Byte. If you are a member, please sign in and participate. If you are not a member, please sign up and join the conversation. We'd love to hear from you.
Bethea's Byte
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Log in

I forgot my password

    Who is online?
    In total there are 4 users online :: 1 Registered, 0 Hidden and 3 Guests :: 2 Bots

    The Last Outlaw

    [ View the whole list ]

    Most users ever online was 156 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:22 am
    Recent Members
    See more
    We have 36 registered users
    The newest registered user is Niko

    Our users have posted a total of 4724 messages in 2111 subjects
    January 2022

    Calendar Calendar

    Affiliate With Bethea’s Byte

    Bethea's Byte

    Anti-Spam Bots!

    Submit Your Site To The Web's Top 50 Search Engines for Free!

    The Coffee House

    Planet Nexus

    BG Music

    How Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short

    View previous topic View next topic Go down

    The Last Outlaw
    The Last Outlaw
    Head Administrator
    Head Administrator
    Male Posts : 2161
    Age : 45
    Join date : 2018-05-25
    Location : Salem, Oregon
    Status :

    PostThe Last Outlaw Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:39 pm

    How Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short IlWna

    From The Washington Post

    Amber Philips of The Washington Post wrote:The linchpin of Democrats’ impeachment evidence against President Trump didn’t come from the 17 witnesses they called, or from hours of public hearings and subpoenaed documents and phone records. It came from Trump’s own mouth. Specifically, his July 25 call with Ukraine’s newly elected president, where Trump asked him to investigate Democrats.

    At the time of the call, multiple witnesses were perplexed why Trump was holding up military aid to Ukraine. Others couldn’t understand why Trump was reluctant to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in the Oval Office. They testified that when they heard the call or read its transcript months later it all clicked for them. Trump was holding these things back to get Ukraine to investigate his political opponents.

    Democrats have taken that a step further: The call itself is evidence Trump was leveraging the power of his office and official diplomatic tools to help his reelection.

    So how are Republicans defending Trump’s call now that it’s a central piece of evidence against him? And where does their defense fall short? Let’s review some of the main things they said in Wednesday’s House Judiciary Committee hearing.

    Defense No. 1: Trump asked Zelensky for a favor for the country, not for him

    This defense centers on Trump’s first ask to Zelensky in the call, which comes right after Zelensky mentions getting more weapons from the United States. “I would like you to do us a favor, though, because our country has been through a lot, and Ukraine knows about it,” Trump replied.

    A couple of Republican lawmakers said that Trump was talking about how the Mueller investigation had put the country through “a lot,” and therefore he wanted Ukraine to help. (The call took place the day after special counsel Robert S. Mueller III testified to Congress about his findings in the Russia investigation.)

    Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.): “Here, there president’s talking about the country. That’s what he’s talking about.”

    Where this falls short: Even if you agree with the unsubstantiated premise that the Mueller report was driven by politics rather than facts, it makes no sense why Trump would want a foreign country to help him out here. What was Ukraine going to do to try to heal partisan divisions in America wrought by Russian meddling and the ensuing investigation?

    More likely is that Trump was trying to place his request to investigate Democrats in the context of the Mueller investigation, which he saw as unfair to him. We know the Ukraine allegations were derived from trying to undermine Mueller.

    Defense No. 2 and 3: Zelensky said the call was okay, and he eventually got his military aid

    How Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short $

    Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.) made these dual defenses in one sentence: “Zelensky has said there was no pressure on me, and the aid came through within six weeks after the phone call in question was made.”

    Where that falls short: It ignores timing and context. Zelensky has a strong motivation to say he didn’t feel pressured on the call with Trump. There’s evidence the Ukrainians may have at least suspected their military aid was held up when Trump talked to their president. And Zelensky still hasn’t received an Oval Office meeting with Trump, which would go a long way to helping him fight Russian-backed separatists. His country is at war. Zelensky can’t afford to upset Trump by accusing him of wrongdoing.

    As for the second point, it’s true Trump released the aid. But Trump did it only after a whistleblower complaint was circulating. The New York Times reports that Trump was told about the complaint against him before the aid got released.

    Defense No. 4: Trump doesn’t say “investigate Democrats to get your money” on the call

    Here’s Rep. John Ratcliffe (R-Tex.): “So if military aid, or security assistance is part of that quid pro quo, where in the July 25 transcript does President Trump ever suggest that he intends to withhold military aid for any reason?”

    Where that falls short: Trump didn’t have to be that explicit for Ukraine to know what was going on. Even if Ukrainians didn’t know for sure that Trump had held up their military aid, they knew an Oval Office meeting hung in the balance of what was said on this phone call. Trump also asks for some of the investigations as Zelensky brings up military aid.

    National security experts have testified that when the president of the United States asks “for a favor, though” from a smaller country reliant on the United States to help fight its battles, it’s not a “favor.” It’s a demand.

    “In this case, the power disparity between the two leaders, my impression is that in order to get the White House meeting, President Zelensky would have to deliver the investigations,” testified Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the White House’s top Ukraine expert who listened in on the call.

    Defense No. 5: In subsequent meetings with Zelensky, no one demanded a quid pro quo

    Here’s Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio): “But you know what did happen in those 55 days that the aid was paused? There were five key meetings between President Zelensky and senior officials in our government. … None of those five meetings was aid ever discussed in exchange for an announcement of an investigation into anybody, not one of them.”

    Where this falls short: It’s just not true, especially when you zoom out to conversations Trump officials say they had with Zelensky’s aides.

    • European Union Ambassador Gordon Sondland testified Zelensky asked about aid when meeting with Vice President Pence in September.
    • After that meeting, Sondland told a Zelensky aide that they needed to announce political investigations to get their military aid.
    • Other testimony suggests that diplomats in Trump’s orbit told Zelensky in early July there was a quid pro quo to get his White House meeting.
    • At one of those meetings Jordan outlines, a September meeting between two U.S. senators and Zelensky, Zelensky asks about the aid again, The New York Times reports. He was told only Trump could release it.

    In fact, there was so much communication between Washington and Ukraine about all of this that Zelensky had an interview set up with CNN to announce these political investigations — which witnesses testified he didn’t want to do — and it only got scuttled when the whistleblower complaint came out.

    Welp, Trump's fat goes deeper into the fire. Keep this in mind, this is unfair to Trump, but this same proceedure was fair to the last President who was impeached (but was not removed from office), Bill Clinton.

    Here's what's gonna happen. Donald Trump will be impeached, but he will not be removed from office. Here's the obvious reason: A Democratic house will impeach, but a Republican Senate will vote not to remove Trump. That keeps the Republican party in lockstep with Trump on anything. Remember, anything Republican is fair to Trump. anything Democrat is not.

    Everything you just read starting with "Here's what's gonna happen...", that was not a prediction. It was a spoiler.

    Just Saying.
    How Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short I6goy

    How Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short GO3ER
    How Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short HobsvHow Republicans’ Latest Defenses of the Trump-Zelensky Call Fall Short HoIiA

    UFC Fight Night 192: Smith vs. Spann

    View previous topic View next topic Back to top

    Create an account or log in to leave a reply

    You need to be a member in order to leave a reply.

    Create an account

    Join our community by creating a new account. It's easy!

    Create a new account

    Log in

    Already have an account? No problem, log in here.

    Log in

    Permissions in this forum:
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum